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Author Topic: VAR - Yes or No ?  (Read 1308 times)

Septic Bladder

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2017, 09:41:08 PM »
What we ought to do is propose a set of VAR Rules:

I propose:

Use VAR for:-

1. Did the ball cross the line for a goal?
2. The final pass, was the player receiving the ball and then scoring directly, offside?
3. Penalty Decisions - where ref obstructed or hint of diving
4. Straight Red Card decisions - due the significant impact on the game.
5. Player offside, not scoring, but obstructing the keeper
6. ........

Not for:-

1. Corners
2. Throw ins
3. Yellow cards, including 2nd yellow
4. Keeper handling outside area
5. Back passes
6. Hand ball not in penalty area
7. Offsides other than as covered in points 2 and 5 above ( the Maccarone goal)
8. Fouls and free kicks
9. ........

agree on all those except offside ...those lousy pricks on the sideline should be able to handle that one small thing...its not rocket science ..if they get it wrong ..they get it wrong .let face it ....a half a foot either way isn't really going to make that much difference whether they score or not anyway.

But Miron, Offside is the single most vexing law of the game; the source of endless debate and controversy. The game is so fast now it would be negligent to not use available technology to resolve this issue.

Dinoweb

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2017, 10:39:11 PM »
So Dino you are a proponent of the Butterfly Effect?
Sep, in answer to your question -

The butterfly effect as regards predictability is inherently limited due to minor variations, yes, as opposed to pop culture concept that things happen for a reason that can be traced back and that we can pinpoint that reason, no.

The first concept is mathematically proven, the second is not.

Unfortunately, the VAR works on the second concept.

The first concept actually does apply to football in the regard that, for example, kicking a ball exactly the same way does not always have exactly the same effect. The ball may be slightly flatter the second time, the humidity may have changed, the grass might be just that little bit longer, the breeze might be coming from a different direction or it's strength may have varied. All these things will change the result and are examples of the butterfly effect.

Refereeing, and coaching and players decisions for that matter are different. They are a choice. Choice A goes in one direction, Choice B goes in a different one. As much as you might like a do over, once that choice is made, it can not be reversed, because things can not be put back exactly as they were at the time of the choice. Choice A leads to choice C and D, but choice B leads to choice E and F and could never lead to either C or D.

At whatever point in the path you are, you could never have got there without every other choice. If you choose B and then E, to say that E is more important than B, and is independent of it, is utterly ridiculous.

As to your list of VAR
1 - Already agreed
2 - Was the receiving player offside? How is this any more important than any other offside call. There's plenty of them made where a player is onside but the game is stopped and a goal scoring opportunity lost. We want more goals, not less.
3 - Penalty decisions - Surely then every potential issue needs to be checked, not just the ones given, every appeal for handball in the box, every time a player is tackled or blocked the list is endless
4 - Red Card decisions - your suggestion would reduce the number of red cards given, what about all those that should be red but aren't?
5 - Player obstructing the keeper - see 2 and 3 above
I see it, but I do not believe it!

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Chico Raul

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2017, 06:20:36 AM »
Good discussion Sep and Dinoweb.
As a sideways move, the discussion around cause and effect is very pertinent to the issue of encroaching in a free kick.
Not so much a VAR issue but one where I would like to see the refs use their cards is the encroachment by opposing players on free kicks. The free kick was awarded because of an infringement, and by encroaching on the ball the advantage is negated considerably.
It may prevent the ball from going forwards reducing attacking options, or ensure pressure is on the free kick taker, or simply prevents a quick free kick,  all of which enables the offending team to gain advantage illegally. It happens all the time. As a case in point in terms of one thing leading to another, look at the Syria goal v  Australia. Had Australia's free kick not been prevented from being taken fairly (encroachment), the ensuing goal would not have occurred. Of course, Syria may have scored in some other way, which is I think at the heart of Dionweb's discussion, or they may not. The fact is that they did encroach, and they did score against Australia.
It seems to me that refs don't need technology to police free kicks. The just need to do their jobs.
Carry on chaps with your VAR discussion!

Da Weana

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2017, 07:38:57 AM »
I like what KL said in his presser. The VAR decisions are not made by a computer but by humans, which means it's fallible just like the refs on the pitch

Septic Bladder

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2017, 04:30:56 PM »
I saw a vary scarry program on the ABC recently titled "The AI Race" - you can find it on YouTube now - watch it.

So many jobs could go to AI software and robots. With current technology - and the way it is progressing / its not hard to imagine multiple cameras and a SoftRef eliminating all these issues in seconds with minimal disruption to a game.

No need for blind linesmen not keeping up with play, no need for refs who can get conned by a diver.

Just need a bouncer type to place the ball or push back the wall to the laser marked line by SoftRef or drag a red carded player off the field.

The SoftRef will instantly be able to analyse A => C&D or B =>E&F the relative impacts on the game etc.

Da Weana

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2017, 04:43:21 PM »
Sigh, there goes our beautiful game :(

B2B

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2017, 05:35:22 PM »
No.

BrynFC

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2017, 07:56:25 PM »
I don't agree with VAR in the game.

Its played by 22 players on the pitch, they make errors and so does the Ref.

Thats the beauty of the game, its human....

As for ref errors, it seems to average it self out over a season, you might get a bad call one game and the next game its in your favour.

what happens on the field, stays on the field, if the ref misses it, then so be it.

miron mercedes

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2017, 10:11:04 AM »
off topic..but can anyone (mods? )explain why we have a like button ...but it no longer works ? The weird thing is ..every now and again it does work...but mostly not .
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Septic Bladder

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2017, 06:25:25 PM »
off topic..but can anyone (mods? )explain why we have a like button ...but it no longer works ? The weird thing is ..every now and again it does work...but mostly not .

Do you want to Like me Miron?

miron mercedes

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2017, 09:12:55 AM »
off topic..but can anyone (mods? )explain why we have a like button ...but it no longer works ? The weird thing is ..every now and again it does work...but mostly not .

Do you want to Like me Miron?
I keep trying to press your like button Sep ....but something keeps holding me back...
Your life is an occasion...rise to it.

Interviewer "if you weren't a footballer what would you be ? "
Peter Crouch " hmmmm  ??............a virgin ? "

"the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"....The Usual Suspects... 1995

coast

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2017, 04:50:26 PM »
No.  Accept human error as part of the game and move on.

Septic Bladder

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2017, 05:45:31 PM »
No.  Accept human error as part of the game and move on.

So what do we do with Foxtel replays and analysis?

The technology is available. We cant be Luddites. They just have to streamline the process.

miron mercedes

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2017, 06:09:43 PM »
yes we can
No.  Accept human error as part of the game and move on.

So what do we do with Foxtel replays and analysis?

The technology is available. We cant be Luddites. They just have to streamline the process.

nothing wrong with something remaining as is if it works ...football isn't in any problems because of poor refereeing...its problems stem from corruption and self interest ...which in turn stem from the vast amounts of money generated by football now .
The question is how do we keep our game attractive when the suits are only interested in bringing in more money regardless of what fans want ....eg having VAR stoppages sponsored....ie incentive to have more of them....in Rugby League it works because the game naturally stops all the time anyway.
It doesn't suit our beautiful flowing game .

What next ? Yellow cards with a sponsors name on it ?
The Kentucky Fried Chicken Time added on ?
Red card by BET 165 ?
Your life is an occasion...rise to it.

Interviewer "if you weren't a footballer what would you be ? "
Peter Crouch " hmmmm  ??............a virgin ? "

"the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"....The Usual Suspects... 1995

coast

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2017, 10:22:44 AM »
yes we can
No.  Accept human error as part of the game and move on.

So what do we do with Foxtel replays and analysis?

The technology is available. We cant be Luddites. They just have to streamline the process.

nothing wrong with something remaining as is if it works ...football isn't in any problems because of poor refereeing...its problems stem from corruption and self interest ...which in turn stem from the vast amounts of money generated by football now .
The question is how do we keep our game attractive when the suits are only interested in bringing in more money regardless of what fans want ....eg having VAR stoppages sponsored....ie incentive to have more of them....in Rugby League it works because the game naturally stops all the time anyway.
It doesn't suit our beautiful flowing game .

What next ? Yellow cards with a sponsors name on it ?
The Kentucky Fried Chicken Time added on ?
Red card by BET 165 ?

Ref's whistles sponsored by Allianz insurance.

Terror

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2017, 10:11:57 AM »
It still misses less than human eyes so I'm OK with it.
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Orange Emperoar

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2017, 02:26:03 PM »
15 to 2 so far
You'd need to make a few points other than basically saying that video records images. So far this season I can't think of one meaningfully beneficial decision.
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My.2cents

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Re: VAR - Yes or No ?
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2017, 06:58:03 PM »
No to VAR for all the reasons sighted above. Especially the fact that I now need to wait for the VAR to confirm wether to celebrate or not.

And tonight it's the Macca's VAR.
FFS.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 07:33:01 PM by My.2cents »

 

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