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Author Topic: Future of Australian Football  (Read 3183 times)

aussieshorter

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Future of Australian Football
« on: March 24, 2017, 06:11:17 PM »
I've spent a lot of time recently thinking, reading and talking about the issues (perceived or real) that we currently have in Australian football.  And it's all come together in a blog post I've written that offers some solutions and will hopefully encourage more discussion and possibly even some action. 

Feedback is very much welcome.

It's a huge post, so I won't post it all, but if anyone is interested you can see the whole thing here - http://thepeckingorder.com.au/tpovision/

The reason it's so long is because I've covered pretty much anything I thought to be relevant:


Here's a quick snapshot:
Quote
I?ll dive straight in by showing you my vision for what the Australian football pyramid can and should look like.  Imagine an all-inclusive system with 10 tiers of football, two of which are fully professional, which has over 500 clubs competing and is open to any other club around the country who wants to participate.

Better than that, it?s designed to encourage investment in facilities and player development and reward those that have a desire and take action towards becoming a professional club.  At the same time, it finds balance with the current A-League and provides some protection for those professional clubs. It also allows the A-League to remain the key commercial driver for our sport, while taking the shackles off all other clubs and allowing them to drive the game forward at the elite level.  In other words, it engages clubs at all levels to play their part in growing football, and clubs of all sizes have a part to play.

Believe it or not (and I prove it in the full blog post), it?s a structure that is very similar to what we have now, but with a few changes that all fall under the same category ? they encourage growth, inclusiveness and a drive to professionalism. Note that I?ve left out the regional leagues and focussed on the State Leagues in this diagram.  There are just as many clubs outside of this setup in regional associations who underpin everything and have the potential to be linked to this as well.

The Future of Australian Football - http://thepeckingorder.com.au/tpovision/

aussieshorter

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 11:31:00 AM »
Any feedback, good or bad?

Anything you disagree with?
The Future of Australian Football - http://thepeckingorder.com.au/tpovision/

dobo

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 01:41:06 PM »
i will admit that i have not actually read through your proposal just looked through your pyramid, but this would require HUGE investment, probably more than is likely possible, at least in my lifetime. First things, short term (10 years) if you knock out A2 and pretty much everything from tier 5 and below,then you have pretty much what the federation is looking at implementing;

- a-league
- b-league which is a staging league for teams looking at getting into the a-league (no direct promotion and probably conditional pro/rel from state leagues, made up from current NPL teams)
- State league/leagues (pro/rel between lower leagues Currently the NPL1/2)
- regional leagues with conditional promo into state league

The a league is only just becoming stable (financially) and it is currently too small to sustain a B league. with expansion on the horizon and hopefully it becoming independent of the FFA then i can see in 10 or so years a b-league come into existence. until then we have the NPL1/2 in its current state. we need 16-18 teams in the A-league then same in the b-league (take applications from NPL1 teams) re-shuffle the NPL1/2 and bring in new NPL2 teams to fill the gap left.

where everything falls down (and has always been the problem in aus) is the costs of running these competitions due to how absolutely huge Australia is and how vastly populated it is. the costs are astronomical, its not like in europe where you can hire a bus for a couple of hundred dollars for the team and drive them to the other side of the country. here you have to fly, often the day before and the day after the game so you now have to also pay for accommodation and food for 3 days. In QLD it is not uncommon for NPL players to be paying $2000/ season to play (particularly the younger players) and that is just for clubs not to go broke, add to that that these part timers are having to take time off work to compete and obviously it will turn players away from competing in that level in favour of local leagues. that stops the best players playing against the best players, and the best clubs playing against the best clubs and you no longer have a pyramid or a pathway and the system falls down.

prime example of that is the brisbane premier league and QLD. the QPL which is going to come in next year is  being brought in to kill the BPL as there are still clubs in the BPL that are arguably bigger than current NPL clubs. however I dont think this will work as there will still be players that can not justify the huge outlay to play QPL and QPL clubs will suffer financially with the huge travel costs

aussieshorter

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 03:28:07 PM »
i will admit that i have not actually read through your proposal just looked through your pyramid, but this would require HUGE investment, probably more than is likely possible, at least in my lifetime. First things, short term (10 years) if you knock out A2 and pretty much everything from tier 5 and below,then you have pretty much what the federation is looking at implementing;

- a-league
- b-league which is a staging league for teams looking at getting into the a-league (no direct promotion and probably conditional pro/rel from state leagues, made up from current NPL teams)
- State league/leagues (pro/rel between lower leagues Currently the NPL1/2)
- regional leagues with conditional promo into state league

The a league is only just becoming stable (financially) and it is currently too small to sustain a B league. with expansion on the horizon and hopefully it becoming independent of the FFA then i can see in 10 or so years a b-league come into existence. until then we have the NPL1/2 in its current state. we need 16-18 teams in the A-league then same in the b-league (take applications from NPL1 teams) re-shuffle the NPL1/2 and bring in new NPL2 teams to fill the gap left.

where everything falls down (and has always been the problem in aus) is the costs of running these competitions due to how absolutely huge Australia is and how vastly populated it is. the costs are astronomical, its not like in europe where you can hire a bus for a couple of hundred dollars for the team and drive them to the other side of the country. here you have to fly, often the day before and the day after the game so you now have to also pay for accommodation and food for 3 days. In QLD it is not uncommon for NPL players to be paying $2000/ season to play (particularly the younger players) and that is just for clubs not to go broke, add to that that these part timers are having to take time off work to compete and obviously it will turn players away from competing in that level in favour of local leagues. that stops the best players playing against the best players, and the best clubs playing against the best clubs and you no longer have a pyramid or a pathway and the system falls down.

prime example of that is the brisbane premier league and QLD. the QPL which is going to come in next year is  being brought in to kill the BPL as there are still clubs in the BPL that are arguably bigger than current NPL clubs. however I dont think this will work as there will still be players that can not justify the huge outlay to play QPL and QPL clubs will suffer financially with the huge travel costs
I appreciate you taking the time to respond.  And to be honest, half of the article has been written for exactly this type of response.

You raise the same arguments I've heard and read time and again.  And I've covered them all in the article.

In fact, these are a few of the sub-headings:
- Timeline for Implementation
- Dispelling the Myth - Financial Stability
- Dispelling the Myth - Expansion as the Answer
- What Does it Really Cost?
- How do we Pay for it?
The Future of Australian Football - http://thepeckingorder.com.au/tpovision/

Chico Raul

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 12:09:12 PM »
I don't know what anyone else thought, but the Socceroo performance v Saudi Arabia was less then convincing in my opinion and alarm bells ringing very loud.
I was encouraged by Juric who started to look like a striker although the miss for what would have been his hat trick was more like the Juric of old.
But with the extra man in midfield, weren't we supposed to dominate? Yet it was turn over after turn over.
I think the way we played (in typical Ange fashion) meant the Socceroos finished the stronger and the Saudis had little petrol in the tank from around the 70th minute, which in the end was the difference. And they had a few players out.
But the ease with which the Saudis scored would indicate that we are in a whole lot of bother when it comes to playing a better side. (like Japan for example)
I think the Confederations Cup will be embarrassing based on the last few Socceroo performances and given the number of players Ange has tried, with very few looking the goods, I can't see where it is going to come from. I am ashamed to say that I am starting to hope we don't qualify for Moscow.  We may scrape through third spot play off, but then what?
I am a big Ange fan, but really, when he says players that are not playing regular first team football, won't get a go, he should stick to that. We should really not have had Sainsbury on the park.
My grandson is playing in under sixes this year and the emphasis is on running with the ball and being comfortable on the ball. A confidence and skill which obviously Saudi Arabia had for their goals.
My grandson is six. I really hope we don't have to wait  12 years or so for a crop of Australian International players that can do what the Saudis did last night.

Orange Emperoar

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2017, 02:03:14 PM »
I am of a similar opinion. Win is fine, but that football isn't going to win us a World Cup.
On the other hand, we have a big couple of months of football culminating with our final match against Thailand on September 5th.
If we can manage a draw in Saitama and then give Thailand a proper spanking, displaying good football at both matches after Ange has had them together for basically three months, then I will be happy that we can be ready to put up a good showing in Russia and challenge for the Asian cup again. The team that plays in Saitama should be the core of the one we intend to field in Qatar '22. If they can put in a good showing then Ange will have done his job well enough and can hand over to the next boss knowing that he has done all he can.
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coast

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2017, 05:44:03 PM »
I was an Ange fan. I'm sure as hell not any more.  He's making a mess of this, and his pigheadedness is becoming a major liability.

Orange Emperoar

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2017, 08:50:24 PM »
I think Ange is still learning. He has been trying something different and at the moment it isn't working. He may persist with it through the Confederations Cup and the rest of qualification, or he may have decided that last night was the last chance. Either way, what happens in the last two games of qualification is important from both a results and performance point of view. Good results with a performance similar to last night won't fill me with joy.
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Septic Bladder

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2017, 03:02:33 PM »
Ange has lost his way.

How long has it been - 4 years, 40 odd players over 40 games.

Yet he chooses the closing stages of WC Qualification to adopt a new system!

That is mad.

Clearly, it isn't working. It may work after 10 or 20 games and lots of + & - to his pool of players.

But right now it jeopardises our qualification.

We need 4 points but if we play 3/4/3 can't see us getting the point we need in Japan.

The only plus is that the totally wooden Jedi Lumberjack has been ruled out.

medley

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2017, 03:53:41 PM »
Ange has lost his way.

How long has it been - 4 years, 40 odd players over 40 games.

Yet he chooses the closing stages of WC Qualification to adopt a new system!

That is mad.

Clearly, it isn't working. It may work after 10 or 20 games and lots of + & - to his pool of players.

But right now it jeopardises our qualification.

We need 4 points but if we play 3/4/3 can't see us getting the point we need in Japan.

The only plus is that the totally wooden Jedi Lumberjack has been ruled out.

Got to agree with you here Sep.
And I don't think the loss of Jedinak is a bad thing.

coast

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2017, 05:11:17 PM »
Ange has lost his way.

How long has it been - 4 years, 40 odd players over 40 games.

Yet he chooses the closing stages of WC Qualification to adopt a new system!

That is mad.

Clearly, it isn't working. It may work after 10 or 20 games and lots of + & - to his pool of players.

But right now it jeopardises our qualification.

We need 4 points but if we play 3/4/3 can't see us getting the point we need in Japan.

The only plus is that the totally wooden Jedi Lumberjack has been ruled out.

Agree 100%

gooseman22

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2017, 05:43:34 PM »
Ange has lost his way.

How long has it been - 4 years, 40 odd players over 40 games.

Yet he chooses the closing stages of WC Qualification to adopt a new system!

That is mad.

Clearly, it isn't working. It may work after 10 or 20 games and lots of + & - to his pool of players.

But right now it jeopardises our qualification.

We need 4 points but if we play 3/4/3 can't see us getting the point we need in Japan.

The only plus is that the totally wooden Jedi Lumberjack has been ruled out.

Agree 100%
Oh dear.
This is happening far too often, for my liking...is the world about to end?

medley

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2017, 06:09:47 PM »
Someone must've hacked my account!!

Finsta

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2017, 08:08:03 PM »
I don't understand Ange's thinking. He's walking away after the WC. Surely he'd want to make 100% sure he'd make it there atleast.

I don't buy the line about "we need to be brave" etc etc. No Ange. We need to play to systems we know and not change formations when we're at the business of qualifying.
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coast

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2017, 01:11:11 PM »
I don't understand Ange's thinking. He's walking away after the WC. Surely he'd want to make 100% sure he'd make it there atleast.

I don't buy the line about "we need to be brave" etc etc. No Ange. We need to play to systems we know and not change formations when we're at the business of qualifying.

I'm with you, Fin.  Ange has lost the plot.  I cannot fathom what is going on in his head at the moment. 

I wonder about the dressing room, too.  The team can't be feeling good right now.

Septic Bladder

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2017, 04:59:20 PM »
I read today that he intends to win The Confederations Cup.


Chico Raul

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2017, 05:54:39 PM »
Having watched the Brazil game I am no less worried than after the Saudi game, but I am backing Ange to ensure we do the best we can.
I had a look back at the 2014 squad (the one that lost three games although put in some creditable efforts against Chile, Holland and Spain) and the current squad contains about half of those players. Since then Ange  has brought in players like Mooy, Rogic, Smith, and Juric who all look better than players they have replaced. 
After what has been a long list of draws I can't fault Ange for trying to change the system. Because the old one was not doing great.
All credit to Ange for at least trying to find a system which works better, even if the signs are that it is not really working as yet.
All credit to Ange for trying to talk up the team's prospects because anything less would be him not doing his job.
What else is he supposed to do? Run up the white flag before we even get there?
And all credit to Ange for casting the net the as wide as possible to try to find some decent players.
The sad fact of the matter is that we simply do not have players of the class that Brazil has; or Germany; or Chile etc. That is not Ange's fault.
And we do not seem to have the forwards capable of incisive counter attacking that the Saudi's had. Again. That is not Ange's fault.
And our defending seems accident prone ( the Bailey Wright turn over and the Hrustic attempted intercept that went horribly wrong for example)
So where are the players that can come in and do a better job? Because I don't see any.
Certainly none playing at Liverpool, Barcelona, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, PSG, Juventus etc etc. Which is what we faced v Brazil.
By comparison, Ange has F*** All to work with but at least he is not blaming the quality of the players.
I really think we are unlikely to win a single game in the Confederations Cup; quite likely to get spanked; but none of this is down to Ange.
Anything better than that will most certainly be down to Ange who is laying down the challenge to his players and trying to instill confidence.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 06:09:16 PM by Chico Raul »

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2017, 08:05:59 PM »
Having watched the Brazil game I am no less worried than after the Saudi game, but I am backing Ange to ensure we do the best we can.
I had a look back at the 2014 squad (the one that lost three games although put in some creditable efforts against Chile, Holland and Spain) and the current squad contains about half of those players. Since then Ange  has brought in players like Mooy, Rogic, Smith, and Juric who all look better than players they have replaced. 
After what has been a long list of draws I can't fault Ange for trying to change the system. Because the old one was not doing great.
All credit to Ange for at least trying to find a system which works better, even if the signs are that it is not really working as yet.
All credit to Ange for trying to talk up the team's prospects because anything less would be him not doing his job.
What else is he supposed to do? Run up the white flag before we even get there?
And all credit to Ange for casting the net the as wide as possible to try to find some decent players.
The sad fact of the matter is that we simply do not have players of the class that Brazil has; or Germany; or Chile etc. That is not Ange's fault.
And we do not seem to have the forwards capable of incisive counter attacking that the Saudi's had. Again. That is not Ange's fault.
And our defending seems accident prone ( the Bailey Wright turn over and the Hrustic attempted intercept that went horribly wrong for example)
So where are the players that can come in and do a better job? Because I don't see any.
Certainly none playing at Liverpool, Barcelona, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, PSG, Juventus etc etc. Which is what we faced v Brazil.
By comparison, Ange has F*** All to work with but at least he is not blaming the quality of the players.
I really think we are unlikely to win a single game in the Confederations Cup; quite likely to get spanked; but none of this is down to Ange.
Anything better than that will most certainly be down to Ange who is laying down the challenge to his players and trying to instill confidence.
I would agree with the above but the elephant in the room is that AFAIK Ange is walking away from the post after the World Cup. At the moment it feels like he's trying to create a cosmic shift in our football persona but is only gonna see it a part of the way through.. That's not really a positive legacy IMO
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Chico Raul

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2017, 08:55:22 AM »
Having watched the Brazil game I am no less worried than after the Saudi game, but I am backing Ange to ensure we do the best we can.
I had a look back at the 2014 squad (the one that lost three games although put in some creditable efforts against Chile, Holland and Spain) and the current squad contains about half of those players. Since then Ange  has brought in players like Mooy, Rogic, Smith, and Juric who all look better than players they have replaced. 
After what has been a long list of draws I can't fault Ange for trying to change the system. Because the old one was not doing great.
All credit to Ange for at least trying to find a system which works better, even if the signs are that it is not really working as yet.
All credit to Ange for trying to talk up the team's prospects because anything less would be him not doing his job.
What else is he supposed to do? Run up the white flag before we even get there?
And all credit to Ange for casting the net the as wide as possible to try to find some decent players.
The sad fact of the matter is that we simply do not have players of the class that Brazil has; or Germany; or Chile etc. That is not Ange's fault.
And we do not seem to have the forwards capable of incisive counter attacking that the Saudi's had. Again. That is not Ange's fault.
And our defending seems accident prone ( the Bailey Wright turn over and the Hrustic attempted intercept that went horribly wrong for example)
So where are the players that can come in and do a better job? Because I don't see any.
Certainly none playing at Liverpool, Barcelona, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, PSG, Juventus etc etc. Which is what we faced v Brazil.
By comparison, Ange has F*** All to work with but at least he is not blaming the quality of the players.
I really think we are unlikely to win a single game in the Confederations Cup; quite likely to get spanked; but none of this is down to Ange.
Anything better than that will most certainly be down to Ange who is laying down the challenge to his players and trying to instill confidence.
I would agree with the above but the elephant in the room is that AFAIK Ange is walking away from the post after the World Cup. At the moment it feels like he's trying to create a cosmic shift in our football persona but is only gonna see it a part of the way through.. That's not really a positive legacy IMO
The roots of the problems with Australian football and the quality and types of footballers we produce go far beyond what Ange can fix.
He was coach in the 2014 World Cup. He hopes to be coach at the 2018 WC if we can get through. ( Lots of permutations still there in terms of qualifications).
And should we get there he hopes to do as well as we did in 2006 or better. Which I think means get a result against a "big" team.
He has set out a challenge to Australian football, but is ahead of the times, and we need the development systems to catch up. It is almost a case of wrong place/wrong time for Ange.
A key part of his approach is to adopt a fearless approach, to not be intimidated, to challenge each player to be the best they can possibly be, and not to die wondering.
He has been criticised for changing the formation. What he is doing is trying to position the team to be able to adopt different formations as required according to circumstances. As other teams do.
He has a job and a half because we do not have a squad of top class players. Nor do we have anyone in attack  who is world class. For years our best avenue (almost our only one) has been to get the ball to Timmy.
Timmy is getting on now and not the threat he was. I really don't see anyone in the squad who is world class.
So whilst Leicester overachieved for example, and won the EPL with a handful of top class EPL players and a very effective get it to Vardy approach, the Socceroos really don't have a go to player to build a squad around.
So our best bet IMO is to be capable of varying formations and play with confidence. Give it our best shot and for once in our lives maybe get lucky.
The Confederations Cup is important but mainly because it gives us chance to learn and develop as a squad. But the Japan qualifier is the next  critical game. 
Whilst we lost 4-0 to Brazil (could have easily been 6 or 7) hopefully our players got much more out of the experience than the Brazilians.
The Confederations Cup is another chance to expose our players to top quality opposition and become the best they possibly can.
If we can do well at the WC and maybe get a result against a top team that will be Ange's legacy and a major step on the journey.

coast

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Re: Future of Australian Football
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2017, 10:35:16 AM »
Having watched the Brazil game I am no less worried than after the Saudi game, but I am backing Ange to ensure we do the best we can.
I had a look back at the 2014 squad (the one that lost three games although put in some creditable efforts against Chile, Holland and Spain) and the current squad contains about half of those players. Since then Ange  has brought in players like Mooy, Rogic, Smith, and Juric who all look better than players they have replaced. 
After what has been a long list of draws I can't fault Ange for trying to change the system. Because the old one was not doing great.
All credit to Ange for at least trying to find a system which works better, even if the signs are that it is not really working as yet.
All credit to Ange for trying to talk up the team's prospects because anything less would be him not doing his job.
What else is he supposed to do? Run up the white flag before we even get there?
And all credit to Ange for casting the net the as wide as possible to try to find some decent players.
The sad fact of the matter is that we simply do not have players of the class that Brazil has; or Germany; or Chile etc. That is not Ange's fault.
And we do not seem to have the forwards capable of incisive counter attacking that the Saudi's had. Again. That is not Ange's fault.
And our defending seems accident prone ( the Bailey Wright turn over and the Hrustic attempted intercept that went horribly wrong for example)
So where are the players that can come in and do a better job? Because I don't see any.
Certainly none playing at Liverpool, Barcelona, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, PSG, Juventus etc etc. Which is what we faced v Brazil.
By comparison, Ange has F*** All to work with but at least he is not blaming the quality of the players.
I really think we are unlikely to win a single game in the Confederations Cup; quite likely to get spanked; but none of this is down to Ange.
Anything better than that will most certainly be down to Ange who is laying down the challenge to his players and trying to instill confidence.
I would agree with the above but the elephant in the room is that AFAIK Ange is walking away from the post after the World Cup. At the moment it feels like he's trying to create a cosmic shift in our football persona but is only gonna see it a part of the way through.. That's not really a positive legacy IMO
The roots of the problems with Australian football and the quality and types of footballers we produce go far beyond what Ange can fix.
He was coach in the 2014 World Cup. He hopes to be coach at the 2018 WC if we can get through. ( Lots of permutations still there in terms of qualifications).
And should we get there he hopes to do as well as we did in 2006 or better. Which I think means get a result against a "big" team.
He has set out a challenge to Australian football, but is ahead of the times, and we need the development systems to catch up. It is almost a case of wrong place/wrong time for Ange.
A key part of his approach is to adopt a fearless approach, to not be intimidated, to challenge each player to be the best they can possibly be, and not to die wondering.
He has been criticised for changing the formation. What he is doing is trying to position the team to be able to adopt different formations as required according to circumstances. As other teams do.
He has a job and a half because we do not have a squad of top class players. Nor do we have anyone in attack  who is world class. For years our best avenue (almost our only one) has been to get the ball to Timmy.
Timmy is getting on now and not the threat he was. I really don't see anyone in the squad who is world class.
So whilst Leicester overachieved for example, and won the EPL with a handful of top class EPL players and a very effective get it to Vardy approach, the Socceroos really don't have a go to player to build a squad around.
So our best bet IMO is to be capable of varying formations and play with confidence. Give it our best shot and for once in our lives maybe get lucky.
The Confederations Cup is important but mainly because it gives us chance to learn and develop as a squad. But the Japan qualifier is the next  critical game. 
Whilst we lost 4-0 to Brazil (could have easily been 6 or 7) hopefully our players got much more out of the experience than the Brazilians.
The Confederations Cup is another chance to expose our players to top quality opposition and become the best they possibly can.
If we can do well at the WC and maybe get a result against a top team that will be Ange's legacy and a major step on the journey.

CR, with all due respect, you seem to be conflating fearlessness with tactics.  The problem with Ange is the late and ill considered switch to a back 3.  We simply do not have the quality in our CBs to play this formation.  The results have been markedly unsatisfactory, to say the least.  Ange can be fearless in a 433, and was. 

We all saw his stubborn streak with Brisbane:  remember, plan B is to do plan A better.  It was a problem then, but has been magnified 10 fold now, at this higher level.  I simply don't think he has the tactical intelligence for international football, and his mule headedness and refusal to admit the possibility of error is now sending us up the creek without a paddle in sight.

His arrogance is something to behold.  That 'go hard' nonsense simply made him look like an idiot.  He needs to show some dignity and poise.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 10:37:14 AM by coast »

 

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